I would like to point out that had you watched the links of Kevin Smith talking that I sent, like six months ago, you would know that Kevin Smith had that line spoken by the dumbess guy in the film ON PURPOSE to show that it was a dumb line of logic. Ouch man. I watch your videos… well except for the two above not working. Since I can’t do anything about it I will stick my tounge out at you and hope you have enough of a imagination to visualise it. 😛

    Now, this song came out a while ago so I’m kinda surprised your writing about it now but what the hell. never too late to bitch about the stupidity and double standards of others. (May Bryan Singer burn in hell. Amen.) First off, this singer does by no means represent those trully bisexual, bi-curious, and lesbians who are either trying to figure out for them selves what their sexuallity is or what it isn’t. She makes that pretty clear from her lyrics. No, she is in a rapidly growing group of girls who do stupid slutty acts for attetion or pleasure. At least she was smart enough to make money off it as oppose to the ladies on Girls Gone Wild.

    Now here’s the thing, some girls really enjoy kissing other girls but have no intention of dating one. I don’t get it my self, but, what ever. Some of these girls don’t mind if guys watch and others do mind. They kiss girls for the same reason some one plays golf, they like it.

    I’ve personally never kissed a girl, it’s not on my list of things to do before I die. However, I can see how the opportunity could arise and then become a hobby. A few years ago, and I don’t know how it came up, my then boyfreind brother’s girlfreind was appalled by the fact that I had never seen another girl’s breasts up close and personall beofore. So, she invited to the bath room so she could flash me and I could flash her. She… I’m a good person stop judging me… she complimented my rack and I complinted hers and we walked out of the bath room. Their was no aciidental slipping into the shower and having sex or anything. It was boring. Now if she asked to kiss me I would have politley declined but other girls might not. You do it once you may do it again. Thus explaining the straight girls who have no intention of having sex with girls but like kissing them.

    Society is bombarded by images of girls kissing girls as acceptible. Boys kissing boys… not so much. It dosn’t help that more men are turned on by girls kissing girls then women who are turned on by boys kissing boys. Is it fair that it’s acceptible for a girl to kiss a girl, to even have sex with that girl but a boy can’t even hold hands with a guy he really likes? No, but if those two girls wanted to get married the people who didn’t mind the kissing might start getting mad.

    If I haven’t made my point I forgot what it was so I’m just gonna stop now. Sorry for the length.

  2. @Gotham: I don’t remember when you pointed out those videos, but I didn’t need to check them out because I already own both Evening and Evening Harder. So I know well the moment you’re talking about. The point still goes that he gets criticized for it, though (as the question-asking lesbian in question mentions).

    And as for the other… I thought men have the privilege in society. If men have such privilege, surely they should be able to do whatever they like with whomever they like. (this is, of course, where the privilege argument begins to deteriorate, because it’s supposed to be “straight” privilege, except that homophobia is, arguably, a relatively new construct, socially)

    I’d also argue that “stupid slutty acts for attention” doesn’t really further the whole women-reclaiming-their-sexuality cause, does it? I mean, unless the whole point is that women want to reclaim their sexuality because they want to be sluts, but I don’t think that’s the case.

  3. LISA

    It’s all a trendy, money making ploy. They’ve used these lyrics as to make a kerfuffle (lets fuck with these kids heads more, so maybe they’ll give us more money). Songs have been doing that forever. It’s funny, though, because it’s not like we’re talking Sex Pistols or Marylin Manson we’re taking the trendy-pop-single-mainstream. This song was designed for the confused generation of today. It’s catchy, yet, when you think about the lyrics, it sends a fucked up message. Like you’ve so awesomely detailed. Kinda reminds me of that Rehab song. Bums me out that little ten year old girls are growing up, thinking this kind of random behaviour is okay. Like it’s a name brand of some sort, so it’s “cool”

    Yesterday, I swear I heard the song on the radio five times. Once, even, I heard Chad squealing the lyrics off in our backyard.

    In my opinion, the real lesbians, the ones who lead regular lives with their spouses will cringe the most.

    It sucks that songs are written about trashy behaviour and then become the next smash hit.

    “Can you imagine if Justin Timberlake came out with a song called “Tickle Kiss” about making out with a guy who hadn’t shaved for a week?”
    I probably wouldn’t mind it. Ha! I think the reason that they don’t come out with the men’s version is because male homosexuality isn’t as acceptable in the media, yet. That could change, and it very well may. And personally, I think you should call his agent, and see if you can line it up. Excellent idea!

  4. JASON

    The fact that I used to work in marketing is probably why the first thing I thought when I read “Can you imagine if Justin Timberlake… ” was that, well, he CAN’T, and neither can men in general, because people won’t spend hard-earned cash on that.

    What I took away from my years in those particular trenches was that media that is meant to be sexually stimulating is aimed mostly at getting men off. That includes selling women stuff, be it clothes or make up or, say, ideas that will make them more attractive to men. First you make them feel like there’s something wrong with them, then you sell them the means to fix it.

    If men were allowed to have different kinds of relationships, it might be different.

    In regards to this, however: “If men have such privilege, surely they should be able to do whatever they like with whomever they like. (this is, of course, where the privilege argument begins to deteriorate, because it’s supposed to be “straight” privilege, except that homophobia is, arguably, a relatively new construct, socially)”

    I guess it depends on the definition of “new”, but construct or no, it is alive and well in our time. And speaking from one dude to another, Will, the privilege men supposedly don’t have is rooted in internalized homomphobia. Men, in general are so scared to come across as “faggy” (plz forgive the term) or feminized that we overcompensate in any number of ways.

    It’s really pissed me off too that this boring, over-produced song is getting so much play, but at the end of this sleep-deprived rant, I believe that the reason people are letting this one go is because it only gently tickles the social order. She’s not an actual Ghey, she’s adventureous but she’ll stick with her boyfriend because that’s what good girls do (right?) and she gets to do it all with power chords stomping behind her. This song was made for Hot Topic.

  5. @Lisa: oh, don’t even get me started on Winehouse. Seriously. What a massively fucked up artist. I’ve heard a lot of people opine “But at least she’s got talent,” which I can’t actually deny, but she’s totally squandered what she’s got and there are a lot of other artists out there doing that schtick better.

    @Jason: you bring up a lot of really good points, one dude to another. And yeah, I know Timberlake never could, but I think I was just trying to raise the question or issue in general. I didn’t mind the term at all because I knew what you’re saying, but it goes straight back to Perry: “faggy” and “gay” are insults, and we don’t want to be perceived that way. But that’s the thing; it’s perception. The first point there is that you can’t really control what other people think of you (many people think I’m an arrogant prick despite my best efforts to dispel the notion), and songs like Perry’s don’t help with that perception any.

    And god I hate Hot Topic. Every one I’ve ever been to has felt like claustrophobic consumerism with wares on top of wares on top of wares.


    I don’t recall saying the stupid slutty acts for attention was by any means furthering the because of women. I think I had a very different idea of what the purpose of this blog was and I think I have a much better idea of what that purpose is now. I don’t like repeating history so I’ll just end with that.

  7. @Gotham: no, I hadn’t meant to imply you had. You just mentioned stupid slutty acts to get attention, which I then correlated to the so-called feminist movement and women’s reclamation of sexuality and etc. Wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth or anything!

  8. Heard the song, thought oh, that’s really stupid then heard someone in an art store saying what an insult it was to GBLT folks and still thought, oh no, it’s still just stupid. Will look up Jill Sobule version, probably think about the same, but a bit peppier?

  9. MIYA

    “I must confess I’m kinda completely a dude when it comes to lesbians (ZOMGLEZBIENSWOOTFTWBBQ!!!!111!”

    That is the reason Jonathan is quite content having a relationship comprised of polyfidelity with two girls and one guy.

    The first time I heard the Katy Perry song I recall saying “honey, this is why I don’t listen to pop” and promptly put the station back to the local NPR broadcast. I’m not a fan of casual kissing or sex especially when given the excuse of “experimentation.” Having been an equal gender opportunist since I first had any interest in the opposite sex, I find Katy’s song is yet another distasteful attempt to stretch out her 15 minutes despite her lack of talent. Apparently you don’t need to have talent or stage presence in order to be a pop musician as long as you’re thin, reasonably pretty by society’s standards, and willing to sell yourself short.

    Many thanks for the Jill Sobule video, I hadn’t heard her song before and now must scour the net for more. 🙂 You’re right, she is simply joyful and her happiness is infectious. The use of Fabio as her partner was amusing. Here she is fantasizing a life with her female neighbor while dating/married to the king of romance novel covers.

    I have that Joe Hill book on order to arrive in the next few days with many thanks to the paperback exchange and my twin pregnancy books that are off to a woman in Arizona.

  10. @Pond: peppier but also more serious. It’s not as flippant and glib and trashy as Katy Perry’s. It’s kinda sweet and cute.

    @Miya: Oh, now I really hope you enjoy it. And yeah, Katy Perry is one of the more obvious lacks-of-talent lately. I caught a televised performance the other day and her voice was pretty awful. And I think you’ll dig Sobule. She’s a sweetheart.

    And can I also just note that I really like the polyfidelity thing? Not just that it’s two girls and a guy, but more as the term itself. I’ve heard of polyamory and polygamy before, but I love the addition of the idea of fidelity into it. Because fidelity is so important to relationships, and hell, a great lot of traditional “monogamous” relationships don’t just miss the boat but can’t even find the dock where it’s moored.

  11. MIYA

    The downside of polyfidelity is that one person’s instability can hurt three people not just two. The upside is that at least one of the members is normally in a good mood and there is an extra set of hands for tending to the children and chores. Housework goes much faster between three adults than two although for some reason it’s still falling onto me since I’m the stay at home mom. Bi,poly,pagan,AP, mom of twins… the number of labels keep growing but I still defy getting placed in a box.

    I pimped out your site on ChaCha. I received a query wanting to know if I knew any great upcoming authors and to describe the person in 7 words or less so I linked to your blog and replied “Witty, brilliant and easy on the eyes”. You may get another reader and I made 15 cents. 🙂

  12. GREY


    You’ve got me thinking. Curses!

    I definitely agree that the openness and joy are essential.

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